Subj:	#1(2) TRAVELLER digest 372
Date:	95-08-08 17:24:22 EDT
From:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com

From:	traveller@mpgn.com
Sender:	traveller@mpgn.com
Reply-to:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com (Multiple recipients of list)
Mail Split By Gateway

			    TRAVELLER Digest 372

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Ine Givar	by erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider)
  2) Re: Ok, a little help would...	by Bri <bri@teleport.com>
  3) RICE Paper #SM-1537:  Mertactor	by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  4) Ine Givar	by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  5) Re: Barbettes	by "Upton, Django" <DUpton@vtrnntov.telecom.com.au>
  6) 3D Near Space Viewer	by Jo Grant/DUB/Lotus <Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
  7) RE: Mesonguns, yet again	by Robert.Brennan@isocor.ie
  8) GRAVITY!!	by fbausch@sas.upenn.edu (Frederick J Bausch)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 95 16:16:53 CDT
From: erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Ine Givar
Message-ID: <9508072116.AA22496@bush.cs.tamu.edu>

Re: what are the Ine Givar up to...

In _Survival Margin_, covering the end of the Rebellion period, there
are a few entries covering Ine Givar activities on Rhylanor (a student
demonstration) and Regina (a bomb strike at a mall near where Norris
was supposed to visit). Their press releases always referred to
Archduke Norris as "Duke Norris" and were filled with phrases like
"the moment for democracy is now!". These incidents were followed by a
statement by Zhodani envoy Shtebifriashav who said that the Zhodani
had terminated all dealings with the Ine Givar after the Fifth
Frontier War.

Since GDW hasn't published any Regency-specific info for TNE, there's
no canonical info on the IG in the NE as far as I know.

-- 
Erich Schneider  erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu  http://bush.cs.tamu.edu/~erich

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 15:27:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Ok, a little help would...
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950807152333.13809C-100000@kelly.teleport.com>

 Danke for all the help.
 The Armored Cruiser(according to Fighting Ships. I'll post my T:NE 
conversion soon when I'm done) is 50,000dtons. big.
 And, IMO, even a Scout/Courrier is pretty big for 3 people plus a few 
passangers to live on. Keep in mind, the point where I was visulizing it 
from was the 'keel' of the ship. So I got a full view of the things size 
and just pictured it landing on top of me.
 The Armored Cruiser would be no strech for 240crew(if the number 
survives conversion, wich is in doubt). Seeing as how it is 280m and the 
Scout is 42m.
 From being on a 38ft sail boat -vs- (my Grandparents) new 42ft sail boat 
it's obvious to me what a diffrince a few m can make.

bri


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 16:12:50 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RICE Paper #SM-1537:  Mertactor
Message-ID: <0269e0d0@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

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MzMyMS1BICAgICAgIFNjDQo=

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 16:17:03 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Ine Givar
Message-ID: <0269f110@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

     On Monday, August 7, Fred Kiesche wrote:
     
     >>Anybody have any knowledge of the status of the Ine Givar (from 
     Classic Traveller) in either the MegaTraveller "Shattered Imperium" 
     time period or the Traveller: The New Era time period?<<
     
     There are numerous references to them in Rebellion-Era TNS messages.  
     Refer to SURVIVAL MARGIN for the TNS clips from about 1115-1130.  The 
     Ine Givar rose again to wreak a little havoc during the rebellion, but 
     without Zhodani support, it didn't amount to much more than a few 
     bombings if I recall correctly.
     
     --Chris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Aug 95 12:28:00 EST
From: "Upton, Django" <DUpton@vtrnntov.telecom.com.au>
To: tml <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Barbettes
Message-ID: <3027E4E9@msmailv0.telecom.com.au>


"Christopher Weuve" <caw@intercon.com> writes:

 ------------------------
HA281PMR01@ntu.ac.uk (Lynx) said:
> A barbette is essentially a larger turret capable of holding more
> or larger weapons. Historically, i can only think of the Barbette
> occuring in aircraft. Many WWII aircraft mounted single/double machine
> gun turrets. The Northrop Black Widow had a remotely controlled
> barbette mounting four weapons. I can't remember if the weapons
> were standard machine guns, .50cal Brownings, 20mm cannon etc.

Webster's defines a [naval] barbette as "the armored structure around a gun
platform on a warship".
 ------------------------

Yep, reader's of my previous post on this subject:

                            TRAVELLER Digest 368
  2) Re: Fire Fusion and Steel
        by "Upton, Django" <DUpton@vtrnntov.telecom.com.au>

will see that I agree with this definition.

 -----------------------
Historically barbettes were limited traverse weapon
mounts located on the sides of ships.
 -----------------------

I think you're getting confused with CASEMATE mounts.
Most barbette mounts are not limited in traverse except by the presence of 
the ships superstructure.

 -----------------------
The barbette itself does not move --
rather, it functioned as an armored blister for the weapon itself.  Pre-
dreadnought battleships often had barbettes on the sides of the ship in
addition to turrets on top -- Dewey's flagship at the Battle of Manilla Bay
(USS Olympia?) has this configuration.
 -----------------------

A typical Pre-dreadnought battle ship has 2 turrets (one fore and one aft ) 
each with 2 12 inch guns; a secondary armament of ~12 6 inch guns would be 
mounted in casemates along the sides of the ship. The ship would have no 
Barbette mounts at all!
I don't know about the particular ship you mention ( which may well have had 
barbettes for all I know... but I doubt it ) but barbettes were NOT common 
on Pre-dreadnought Battleships and Cruisers.

In the 20th century barbette mounts have mainly been used for AA guns,
examples being the single mount 5 inch guns on old battleships used in WWII 
and the quad 40mm mounts used extensively on many warship types in WWII.

The remotely controlled weapons mount on the Black Widow was a *turret*, not
a barbette.
 -----------------------

The remote turret on the P61 may have been called a barbette because of its 
flat shape compared with the round turrets used on other aircraft at the 
time.

Django.

------------------------------

Date:  7 Aug 95 22:14:35 EDT
From: Jo Grant/DUB/Lotus <Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
To: Traveller <Traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: 3D Near Space Viewer
Message-ID: <9508080747.AA23159@internet1.lotus.com>

Greeting All!
    I have been working for some time with another fellow
on a program to view and explore nearby stars in 3D space.
It comes with a database of the nearest 2000 odd stars.
    Although originally inspired by the works of C.J.Cherryh
it contains real data and is likely to be of use to any
hard-science RPGers as well. Traveller 2300 people should
love it.
    It can be found on ftp.maths.tcd.ie somewhere in the
pub/jaymin/ch directory structure (I'm not sure exactly where).
Appended to this is the begining of the documentation.
    It would be interesting to see it used as the basis for
a 3D TCS game...
                      Jo


                             ABOUT CHVIEW

For as long our species has gazed into the night sky, we have been awed by
the vision of countless stars.  Having now deduced that stars are radiant
suns like our own, many cannot help but imagine what we might find if we
traveled to those faraway, unknown places.  With no means of interstellar
travel today, we can only dream that our descendants will.

[This Beta-test, WINDOWS-based version of] CHVIEW is intended as a three-
dimensional aid to:  viewing some of the nearer stars of our galaxy;
navigating the distances and gravity "gradients" between them;  accessing
basic information (and updating what we know); and, hopefully, having some
fun.  The current data file provides about 2,600 known stars within 100
light-years of Earth.  Future plans include modules for selecting a star
(or multiple star system) and, based on available data and known
astronomical relationships, for creating your own star system (of planets,
moons, asteroids, Kuiper belt, Oort cloud/cometary halo, and even human
colonies or space communities), for voyaging in faster-than-light (FTL)
"starships", and the like.

CHVIEW is brought to you by Jo Grant and Ben Lin with the assistance of
other subscribers of the CHERRYHLIST discussion group at
JAYMIN@MATHS.TCD.IE.  While some of us have been collecting star data for
years, all of us are fans of the Hugo-winning author, C.J. Cherryh, who has
developed an intriguing scenario for human colonization of our neighboring
stars.  As you may guessed, the name "CHVIEW" is a tribute to her.
Depending on where you obtained this copy of CHVIEW, in fact, some of the
"Place Names" assigned to selected stars may be the names of Cherryh's
fictional human colonies -- easily changed to suit your fancy.

CHVIEW (program, data, and documentation files) is provided for personal
use only.  Written permission must be obtained for all other uses.  All
rights are retained for CHVIEW(c).  Comments and suggestions are welcome:
Jo_Grant.lotusint@crd.lotus.com and BLin@mailstorm.dot.gov.



------------------------------

Date: 08 Aug 95 10:31:57 +0100
From: Robert.Brennan@isocor.ie
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: Mesonguns, yet again
Message-ID:
<GUID:Qm764qGqwHBCwmAAAwFvilQ*/G=Robert/S=Brennan/PRMD=isocor/ADMD=eirmail400/C=ie@MHS>

In digest 367 (Merrick Burkhardt) says [snip, snip, snip]
> A laser
>or PAW whose beam dwells in one place too long punches through the other
side
>of the target, and the rest of the beam is wasted..

and also

>It would give the MG an advantage since all the damage the weapon does would
>actually hit the target.

(Just to play devil's advocate) I'd like to say that I think this argument is
a little forced, you guys seem to be trying to rationalise a way to limit the
usefulness of lasers in  GDW's new (broken) design sequences. 

 Firstly, if the lasers could be made to move even slightly over the ships
surface while a hit is achieved the would continue to cause damage to
multiple ship components (in effect slicing the ship up, like a giant carving
knife).  This is quite likely as targetting of moving startships at BL/BR
distances and speeds is likely to be a process of continual correction, thus
the exact "point of impact" will vary over time.

Secondly, for similar reasons of imperfect targeting a MG's beam will not
necessarily all decay within the target.  It is obvious to me that if even a
fraction of the blast zone was actually inside the ship, it would cause
signifigant damage.  This sort of hit would, however cause less damage than
when the entire blast zone was contained within the ship.

Myself, I have no problem with the arbitary TL*50 rule to balance things out
(remembering that the lasers were artificially improved by use of gravatic
focusing).  Although I do agree with the Munro/Merrick discussion on the
difficulty of traning large mounts, perhaps this could get a bit complicated,
though.

Just my 0.02Cr
[all flames to me personally, robert.brennan@isocor.ie, no need to clog up
the list with that stuff]
Rob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 12:18:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: fbausch@sas.upenn.edu (Frederick J Bausch)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: GRAVITY!!
Message-ID: <199508081618.MAA13517@mail2.sas.upenn.edu>

What's the deal with ship gravity? I know all ships have gravitic 
compensators but I assume that they're just to handle g stresses. It 
seems pretty unlikely that any of the ships in the main book could 
generate spin gravity, so what's the deal? I'm operating under the 
assumption that there is some sort  of artificial grav, but what's the 
explanation? Could you use it to generate several gs and knock everybody 
not in a g seat to the ground?

 - lost in space,
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Father Festus Hammertoe, First Minister of the Fried Chicken synod, holder
of Empress Gabor's Sacred Speculum, Treasurer of the Andy Williams Farted
For You Society, and Official Dogkeeper for the Municipality of Tindalos

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The original king of late night,         -fbausch@sas.upenn.edu
F. Jesse Bausch                          -fjb@ssc.sas.upenn.edu

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End of TRAVELLER Digest 372
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